Hopefully these will hit you like they have me, and help clarify some things in the previous post Part 4a.
Can Armenian believers be Christian Hedonist?
(thought I did not discuss this, I wanted to share it for some I know who have been pondering it)
...also..
I need feedback as to whether this is helpful to anyone. I am debating whether to hit all these segments or to send you where you can find this information for yourselves. I will be happy to continue if it is meaning anything to anyone. Thank you for the feedback.
I've Moved...Go Here...
6 comments:
This is good stuff, Alicia. Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts into words for us all to read and consider. Don’t be discouraged if you don’t get many responses, but know that because of what you write, it causes me to dig into the Word and find the answers. What’s better than that – causing someone to seek Him? (-:
I have to admit, I felt mildly insulted with the implication that a Calvinist would understand the glory of God in a fuller way than an Arminian would. (but probably only because I'm not a Calvinist!) But then I decided to just respectfully disagree with Piper on a few points.
I would classify myself as being firmly wedged between the two schools of thought ~ I guess that makes me a Calvarminianist! (some would probably call that a fence-sitter...) My upbringing kinda puts me more in the Arminian camp, but recently, I've decided I agree with Calvin more on a couple of points, though there are a couple of points in his school of thought that I disagree with as well.
And quite honestly, I'm not sure it matters! But it is interesting to see the differences in how we understand things based on which has been a more influential teaching in our lives.
I don't know if he said "fuller" (I'll have to listen again, and if he did, that would definately be how he sees it biblically) or "differently". I do think Piper tries to be very sensitive yet firm with doctrinal beliefs.
You are right, there is a level where it does not matter and that being that there are usually thoughts to be valid from both sides. Many times it has also to do with personality types more than we may thing. It also has to do with how God show himself to us and what he convicts us in as we have an intimate relationship with him.
I do think it matters in how we do view BIG concepts such as the glory of God. That is one of the most fundimental ideas of our exhistance and gettting it biblically right is important.
I liked that he started out by saying that labels are ambiguous. THat is so true. It is even true of these two "camps" of Calvinist and Arminean.
If we think we add anything to the work of God for his glory I think we have to dig into his word and find out if that is true. I personally find it the pivital point of disagreement I have with the Arminean thoughts.
It's hard to be happy in God when we put some of the process on us because we prove ourselves unable over and over again. He doing it all makes our happiness constant and our service to HIm, though uneeded, a spontaneous display of love back at Him.
It's natural to feel insulted easily. We immediately feel insulted when someone has a strong thought that may go against us. I've been fighting that myself with someone in the body of Christ lately who seems to have pinned me for battle. (I'm not saying this is the same situation) I'm working on remembering that we never work these things out perfectly amonst ourselves and that's why we don't have to worry, we just need to as God to open our eyes to his truth and make us free through it.
I hope you enjoyed most of it though, I had to listen to it a few times but there was a lot there in just a few minutes.
I love Piper. I think he's an incredible preacher/teacher and writer. Most of what he says I agree with whole-heartedly. This particular sticking point is possibly only because I was raised one way and he's coming from a different background, I don't know. I'm certainly not offended or anything ~ it just kinda didn't sit well, you know? I'll have to think about it some more to see if there's good reason or if it's just vain and superficial.
Thanks for sharing it. I've really only become familiar with the differences between Calvin and Arminian (and so many others) very recently. I just find it so interesting to see how what we're raised on, or currently believe, affects how we interpret certain passages and doctrines.
That is very true. I was not raised with these Piper ideas. I had to be hit over the head with them by God bringing them into my life as a balm to some very heavy trials.
I've had to do a great deal of backpeddling in my doctrine as well, although I do think a great deal of good doctrine was taught to me as a child. The wrong stuff could have easily caused me to turn away many times but God was faithful to keep me close and hold my hand through learning more. I'm so thankful for that and that he continues to work.
Interpretation is such tricky business. I agree.
Lately I've been thankful I'm not one of these men at the top of Christendom debating these big and important issues. That is a tough calling! I don't think women are as good at debating theology in groups either unless they are small and intimate and bathed in love for eachother as we truly search with hearts to not be right but to find the truth God has for us. We are such emotional creatures! I cannot imagine how hard it must be to balance grace for the brotherhood and conviction for the facts! Whew, I'm glad I can search and discuss in my little bubble and even that get's poked and proded sometimes:)
I liked what you said about searching out why you were bothered. "I'll have to think about it some more to see if there's good reason or if it's just vain and superficial."
You have the right heart about seeking. Just being able to say that about an issue is a heart that is teachable and may we all have that. Then, God becomes glorious and He can do what He needs to because we are open to His work. The conclusion you come to is not even as crucial as your willingness for Him to show you.
I'm blessed by your attitude.
Tammy,
I like that you like to search and so I've done some homework for you;) No, not really, I'm just going to link some stuff here for you (come back as you have time):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stpYIasDhnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR8lmACTdMk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIzG8A4x7GU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42yBPxgFXSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ7iO-ezebI
I also suggest watching his series on all of the TULIP concept in Calvinism.
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